tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post115120484684243988..comments2023-09-15T06:05:55.920-04:00Comments on gcooke's blog: Boston Invitational 2006-Write-Upgcookehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1152750949810227392006-07-12T20:35:00.000-04:002006-07-12T20:35:00.000-04:00#24,Right on.My point was that diving is a "spirit...#24,<BR/><BR/>Right on.<BR/><BR/>My point was that diving is a "spirit violation". Even though they would shudder to call it that.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the good comments.<BR/><BR/>-Ggcookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1152275758521157432006-07-07T08:35:00.000-04:002006-07-07T08:35:00.000-04:0024,Thanks for your comments. I have personally fo...24,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your comments. I have personally found past World Cups to be worse in terms of diving, but I agree, I think this year might mark the first time we begin to really acknowledge what a problem it is.<BR/><BR/>Wouldn't you say, though, that a yellow card for diving is given for a violation against the spirit of sportsmanship?<BR/><BR/>So we might not call it a "spirit violation", but there are similarities....<BR/><BR/>-ggcookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1151443153067992182006-06-27T17:19:00.000-04:002006-06-27T17:19:00.000-04:00Wicks,Thanks for the perspective. I wondered at t...Wicks,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the perspective. I wondered at the time if the travel was called because Jeff started moving downfield at the same time he threw the disc.<BR/><BR/>I think your interpretation (same as Micah's) is what the call was based on.<BR/><BR/>-ggcookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1151438646999999892006-06-27T16:04:00.000-04:002006-06-27T16:04:00.000-04:00Thanks, Micah, for the clarification.-gThanks, Micah, for the clarification.<BR/><BR/>-ggcookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1151438230462630682006-06-27T15:57:00.000-04:002006-06-27T15:57:00.000-04:00From my (admittly baised, but also less than three...From my (admittly baised, but also less than three feet away) perspective it went like this: Neale makes a bid at the throw and both he and Jeff end up on the ground and in a pile, but Jeff makes the catch. Jeff gets up with Neale still on the ground and covering much of his legs; makes a throw upfield and DoG defender calls travel saying that his pivot foot had moved on the throw.<BR/><BR/>Now, it seemed to me pretty clearly that Jeff had gotten up and thrown legally and we were hurt by the stoppage of play (no longer attacking on a fast break against a broken zone). I really couldn't see how there was movement in Jeff's pivot as the disc was basically instantly thrown as soon as he was back on his feet. Maybe the defender saw somthing I didn't, but like I said I was probably the closest player on the field when it happened.<BR/><BR/>Neale ended up saying something like "well, maybe he travelled but I did really foul him pretty good, so lets just keep the disc as completed to the next receiver.<BR/><BR/>So, the stoppage sucked, but I think the disc ended up in the right spot.<BR/><BR/>-Micah<BR/>Metal #9micahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05594747204929184836noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1151437752059160272006-06-27T15:49:00.000-04:002006-06-27T15:49:00.000-04:00Julian wrote:"So, play goes like this: Legit D att...Julian wrote:<BR/><BR/>"So, play goes like this: Legit D attempt is unsuccessful, but results in a foul that leaves Jeff on the ground but is not called. Jeff gets up off the ground to exploit the fact that the bidding defender is out of position and is called for a travel because he traveled when he stood up. Right?"<BR/><BR/>I believe so. I couldn't hear the specifics of the discussion.<BR/><BR/>"Unless Jeff had yet to establish a pivot because he ended up on the ground as a result of the catch/contact, in which case it couldn't have been a travel. Yes? No?"<BR/><BR/>The contact was made simultaneously with the catch, but I would say that he probably did establish a pivot foot. The trvael was called after he got up and threw the disc. The travel was not called, as far as I understand, because he moved his pivot after the contact.<BR/><BR/>-ggcookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1151428308371651852006-06-27T13:11:00.000-04:002006-06-27T13:11:00.000-04:00G,I was there, but didn't see the play. Sounds lik...G,<BR/><BR/>I was there, but didn't see the play. Sounds like a different situation than I thought.<BR/><BR/>So, play goes like this: Legit D attempt is unsuccessful, but results in a foul that leaves Jeff on the ground but is not called. Jeff gets up off the ground to exploit the fact that the bidding defender is out of position and is called for a travel because he traveled when he stood up. Right?<BR/><BR/>That's a bit different from the "pussy" calls Jim was refering to. Sounds like Jeff took a risk by not calling the foul, and it didn't pay off. Unless Jeff had yet to establish a pivot because he ended up on the ground as a result of the catch/contact, in which case it couldn't have been a travel. Yes? No?<BR/><BR/>jJulianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14337749094233996938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1151425716354542662006-06-27T12:28:00.000-04:002006-06-27T12:28:00.000-04:00Julian,I don't know if you were at Boston or not, ...Julian,<BR/><BR/>I don't know if you were at Boston or not, but this situation was a bit more dramatic than a bump or simply a failure to follow rules. Jeff was fouled, in my opinion, by a legit attempt at the disc. It was the choice, as he was knocked to the ground, to not call the foul that was pretty dramatic, and, if were not for the travel call, in my opinion, would have left Dog at a great disadvantage as the mid-mid was on the ground and Metal was off to the races.<BR/><BR/>-ggcookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1151417646697200672006-06-27T10:14:00.000-04:002006-06-27T10:14:00.000-04:00To be honest, I'm getting sick of calls. This whol...<I>To be honest, I'm getting sick of calls. This whole "I fouled you but it was before the throw" and "you traveled after I bumped you" and whatever other "pussy" calls, as one might say, just destroy the aesthetic value of the game, and leave both teams feeling cheated, in some sense.</I><BR/><BR/>and<BR/><BR/><I>From an aesthetic point of view, I also appreciated Jeff G's no foul call during one of Dog's zone D points, that is, until he got up from the contact and was called for a travel.</I><BR/><BR/>To me, this kind of thing is the biggest threat to spirit in Ultimate today. I understand to some degree the "you didn't call the foul, that's your fault--I'm not going to let you get away with _traveling, fouling, etc_" argument, but I think it implies a kind of disrespect for your oponent and the rules. If you foul on the mark, and the thrower moves four inches as a result, you should let it go; it's clearly a result of <I>your</I> failure to follow the rules, not his.<BR/><BR/>Right. /mini-rant.<BR/><BR/>jJulianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14337749094233996938noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1151410638399685642006-06-27T08:17:00.000-04:002006-06-27T08:17:00.000-04:00Jim,Thanks for the comments. I agree that, as a s...Jim,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the comments. I agree that, as a spectator, it is much more pleasing to watch a "clean" game. I don't think the strip was a "pussy" call at all....<BR/><BR/>From an aesthetic point of view, I also appreciated Jeff G's no foul call during one of Dog's zone D points, that is, until he got up from the contact and was called for a travel.<BR/><BR/><BR/>-ggcookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1151378076214865432006-06-26T23:14:00.000-04:002006-06-26T23:14:00.000-04:00Ryan,That's a very classy way to handle the situat...Ryan,<BR/><BR/>That's a very classy way to handle the situation. It also looked to me, lounging on the sideline, watching but not Observing, that it wasn't a strip, but the call-maker has no history of making questionable calls like that.<BR/><BR/>George, I'm just giving you a hard time, I wasn't offended. But it was 0-0 when it happened. It might be a pivotal point, but it was too early to say that the going was getting tough. <BR/><BR/>Now, if you want a game-changing call, take a look at today's World Cup game. You can't get any more game-changing than a penalty kick in a 0-0 game with 12 seconds left.<BR/><BR/>To be honest, I'm getting sick of calls. This whole "I fouled you but it was before the throw" and "you traveled after I bumped you" and whatever other "pussy" calls, as one might say, just destroy the aesthetic value of the game, and leave both teams feeling cheated, in some sense.parinellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03802604259779936852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1151373531479446272006-06-26T21:58:00.000-04:002006-06-26T21:58:00.000-04:00Ryan,Thanks for your comments. I appreciate your ...Ryan,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your comments. I appreciate your opinions and your different perspective.<BR/><BR/>A couple of things:<BR/><BR/>-While I strongly disagreed with the strip call, calling it "TWCOTD" was over the top and I did that with awareness. <BR/><BR/>-I said "the player acted fairly" meaning that while I strongly disagreed with the call( I believe I said at the time that it was "terrible"), I didn't think he was cheating.<BR/><BR/>-The "We're Dog" comment was a gut reaction and purely my opinon. I think I was clear that this was not a factual statement.<BR/><BR/>-"That's self-officiating for you". I think I was clear later on in the paragraph that this is exactly what I felt.<BR/><BR/>In terms of being a difference maker, I am glad it wasn't. If Ultimate spectators are to respect the time and effort that elite teams take toward making the right decisions, and we come to expect that the talent level makes games like the 02 Dog-FG semis game not an anomaly, then turnovers are a huge deal, and it makes for exciting viewing when they happen. So, in a sense, I was buying into the idea that the opportunity for Dog to break (which is a huge deal) came as a result of the call, and that if the game proceeded "on-serve"....then it was game over...as a result of the call.<BR/><BR/>-ggcookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1151372508472163342006-06-26T21:41:00.000-04:002006-06-26T21:41:00.000-04:00Corey,I am not that aware of history, but I have w...Corey,<BR/><BR/>I am not that aware of history, but I have witnessed many examples of Dog taking the high road when it comes to calls. I think Moses, Forch, Jim, and others have carried themselves with class, in terms of sportsmanship, over the years.<BR/><BR/>My comments were not meant to pile on in any sense, it was to say that, as a spectator, I appreciate and respect clear displays of the highest level of sportsmanship.<BR/><BR/>-ggcookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1151371260365230232006-06-26T21:21:00.000-04:002006-06-26T21:21:00.000-04:00Neva,Thanks for the comments. I have gotten the s...Neva,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the comments. I have gotten the sense, from talking to some former Godiva players, that preserving the values that you describe is important for the Godiva vets. There are rumors of a loose Godiva-vet team for the fall, and perhaps Godiva will continue to give back as coaches ( a few have already gone down that path).<BR/><BR/>In any case, it will be interesting to see if any of the discipline and attention to detail gets passed along to the newer teams. Perhaps it is obvious, but the loss of Godiva, as you describe, represents a huge change for our sport.<BR/><BR/>-ggcookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1151357718343238802006-06-26T17:35:00.000-04:002006-06-26T17:35:00.000-04:00George wrote:Unfortunately, early on, Dog made The...George wrote:<BR/><BR/>Unfortunately, early on, Dog made The Worst Call of the Day when a strip was called that took away a Callahan goal for Metal<BR/><BR/>and<BR/><BR/>"when the going gets tough...out come the calls". <BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/><BR/>It's nice to see that the more things change, the more they stay the same.<BR/><BR/><BR/>CoreyCoreyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01405516935277175423noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1151347534709297072006-06-26T14:45:00.000-04:002006-06-26T14:45:00.000-04:00So Godiva is really and truly over? Very sad. I ...So Godiva is really and truly over? Very sad. I suppose Verge broke up, members merged with the second team to form Riot, and they went on to win the UPA championship (a goal Verge never reached). But this feels different, because it seems to be more a matter of a younger, newer team taking their place. That's probably pretty unusual in the frisbee world.<BR/><BR/>Riot, undefeated in over a year, is the standard everyone looks to - but their game is completely different from Godiva's, more focused on athletic defense and spectacular plays on offense than on taking care of the disc. I don't think there's a women's team today that comes close to running an offense as pretty as Godiva's. Instead, even blowouts like Riot's win over Backhoe in the finals are marred with lots of turnovers by both teams. <BR/><BR/>Perhaps it's just a matter of personnel, in that Godiva's throwers were always able to break at ease and put the disc anywhere on the field that they wanted. But it's also a matter of philosophy. After all, Teens and Goodwin could huck with the best of them - but the chances they took were closer to 90%, whereas many women's teams today throw 50-75% looks. If your philosophy is "Take care of the disc", you will practice offense till the cows come home, making sure it runs like a well-oiled machine; you will recruit throwers that you teach smart defense to; and you will rein in the throws of your primary cutters and teach them to do what they do best.<BR/><BR/>There's nothing wrong with having a different team philosophy, one focused on defense, for example. But I think the women's game loses as a whole when there's only one model of what a team can do. I hope at least some of Godiva's beautiful offense survives, in Brute Squad, the NBT, or in some place new.dhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13213015058022042099noreply@blogger.com