tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post3852380707155909885..comments2023-09-15T06:05:55.920-04:00Comments on gcooke's blog: The fun vs competitive continuumgcookehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-20306029058507778172007-04-03T21:24:00.000-04:002007-04-03T21:24:00.000-04:00Goals are important to win the game. It is a great...Goals are important to win the game. It is a great feeling to set goals with your team and achieve them.<BR/><BR/>Amanda<BR/><BR/>http://thetimemastery.comAmandahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06966040648668311424noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-77355842973763953342007-04-02T18:11:00.000-04:002007-04-02T18:11:00.000-04:00Hey guys,Thanks for the comments.Glenn,You might b...Hey guys,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the comments.<BR/><BR/>Glenn,<BR/><BR/>You might be right that this isn't as common as I think. On the other hand, I think many of the team bonding, friendship, and other important social aspects of the sport all figure into the continuum. For example, many teams will not cut players that have made the team in prior years. I think the decision to cut a friend from the team very much defines where one stands. I just finished reading Feinstein's book about the Baltimore Ravens. The book is about the business of football. When the coaches have to cut a player, the mamtra is "it is a business we're running". As Ultimate is not a business yet, I think we have the luxury, when it comes to putting together a team, to err on the side of fun...if you will.<BR/><BR/>In other words, if there is no continuum then there is just as much potential to be fun as there is to be harsh.<BR/><BR/>Well, i think a team meeting is needed to sell the goals. I think everyone on the team should have input on the goals (input does not mean all suggestions are taken). The team needs to develop a written goal statement and, if necessary, everyone needs to sign it. As I have posted before, the real work needs to be in developing good process goals. That will determine, to a large extent, that path that could/should be taken.<BR/><BR/>Baer,<BR/><BR/>I hope it was clear that I was not suggesting that my either or statement was the way to proceed. On the contrary, as you comment, I think the way to go is with an "and" statement.<BR/><BR/>I think what is intereting about both yours and Glenn's comments is that while it is pretty easy to define to competitve parts of sports...how exactly is "fun" defined. This came to a head this past week, when I actually got a bit mad at my girls. We had our first outdoor practice early in the week. It was a beautiful day, the girls were just back from spring break, and it was pretty obvious that they needed to just blow off some steam. They had no ability to concentrate, they didn't play well.....in general they were just goofy and silly. Now, I don't have a problem with this. If we want to define a practice as a goof off session...that is fine. However, if we do that, there is really no need for me to be there as, in the context of goffing around, there is nothing I can say.....cause we are just goffing around.<BR/><BR/>So what is fun exactly? Is it enjoying working hard? Is it partying? Is it playing well? Is it goofing around? Probably it is all of the above. The trick is to make sure that everyone is defining the same way at the same time.<BR/><BR/>-Ggcookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-39034204557511087542007-04-02T17:10:00.000-04:002007-04-02T17:10:00.000-04:00George,I totally agree with the points on setting ...George,<BR/><BR/>I totally agree with the points on setting goals, but the part of this post that really sticks out is: "things can EITHER be competitive OR fun."<BR/><BR/>I don't think that statement reflected the point of you post, and I don't want to hijack anything, but games, sports, etc, especially Ultimate, should be competitive AND fun. They are not exclusive of each other, and the whole idea of Spirit of the Game is obviously so the two ideas can co-exist. You know that, of course.<BR/><BR/>Two definitions provided by M-W for the word "Game" include:<BR/>1: activity engaged in for diversion or amusement : PLAY, FUN, SPORT.<BR/>2: a physical or mental competition conducted according to rules with the participants in direct opposition to each other.<BR/>Definition 1 is clearly "FUN" and definition 2 is clearly "COMPETITION". They go together.<BR/><BR/>Anyone who plays a game or sport without balancing the two is doing a disservice to the entire activity, IMO. My non-expert recommendation for coaches is to focus on both fun and competition in your team goals. Even most professional athletes will say, even though pro sports is a business, you're still just playing a game.<BR/><BR/>-BaerBaerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07512950615018605757noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-70617541100180951422007-04-02T10:03:00.000-04:002007-04-02T10:03:00.000-04:00I'm not sure that the "continuum" is as accepted a...I'm not sure that the "continuum" is as accepted a paradigm as you state. True, this approach to the game exists, but I think a lot of people have come to the same conclusion you have and decided that competition IS fun. Some of my best games were losses, and my teams have won bad games. So fun isn't just winning (although winning is fun). Plus, I think fun comes from the relationships between the players. Somebody on RSD recently pointed out that a team will retain more recruits if team-bonding and friendship are integral to the program.<BR/><BR/>My question, though, is how do you "sell" the team on the goals? How do you get everybody in line behind the team leadership (coach, captains, seniors)--especially in a school setting, where players can't simply join a different team. It's even worse without a coach. It seems like a lot of peer pressure and conformity to me. A physical contract feels hokey and unnecessary, but how else do you do it?gapoolehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13379733859426588864noreply@blogger.com