tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post7049422702352478487..comments2023-09-15T06:05:55.920-04:00Comments on gcooke's blog: Looking at Offense with questionsgcookehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-56105343304958937242007-09-26T09:03:00.000-04:002007-09-26T09:03:00.000-04:00"increase the number of potential threats" could a..."increase the number of potential threats" could also be interpreted as giving each player multiple options. Besides cutting downfield, there are options for the thrower (the Triple Threat), where (I am translating (somewhat incorrectly) Frank) the thrower can pass for yardage, feed to someone in a position to pass for yardage, or give and go either for yardage or to set up someone else for yardage. (I am using "yardage" here as a proxy for "increasing your likeilihood of scoring").parinellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03802604259779936852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-76511875533045903962007-09-25T09:04:00.000-04:002007-09-25T09:04:00.000-04:00AT,Thanks for the comments.In terms of your second...AT,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the comments.<BR/><BR/>In terms of your second paragraph, I agree and I wonder if a wording of it is, for Ultimate, "increase the number of potential threats" rather than "the ability to pass to any of your teammates".<BR/><BR/>-Ggcookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-72943400331847933412007-09-25T00:49:00.000-04:002007-09-25T00:49:00.000-04:00I think that (speaking broadly) a lot of ultimate ...I think that (speaking broadly) a lot of ultimate teams have the problem of going "head to head" with the defense in stead of taking the path of least resistance. Basically, they try to do "what they do", be it hucking or dump-swing or whatever, even when the defense overplays against that particular option.<BR/><BR/>While I agree that you only want 1 or 2 active cutting options in most situations, having a viable, high percentage pass in the direction of 5 or 6 players drastically reduces the ability of the defense to poach or play help defense. This is why spread offenses are so much more effective when the disc is in the center of the field - you actually get those isolation looks that you want.Tarrhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14368810359650066790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-11792376518371567042007-09-24T17:36:00.000-04:002007-09-24T17:36:00.000-04:00Jim,Thanks for those comments. I think b is very ...Jim,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for those comments. I think b is very good. It is hard to get everyone on the same page all the time.<BR/><BR/>TP,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the comment.<BR/><BR/>-Ggcookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-3766978703737847192007-09-24T14:20:00.000-04:002007-09-24T14:20:00.000-04:00I've found that playing a 3-4 vertical stack inste...I've found that playing a 3-4 vertical stack instead of 2-5 creates a lot more space and cutting opportunities downfield, with less opportunities for defenses to poach and rest on static cutters.<BR/><BR/>It should also help reduce dump turnovers, once you drill it enough.The Pulsehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08192428373950361896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-81600507524866173042007-09-24T12:40:00.000-04:002007-09-24T12:40:00.000-04:00Re: balance. Relevance to ultimatea. Where you t...Re: balance. Relevance to ultimate<BR/>a. Where you turn it over, dump vs downfield (although you also need to balance the likelihood of completing the dump vs a hail mary)<BR/>b. Having a defense called (and having everyone know it). A good O squad make go 20-30 minutes in a game without having to play defense and will forget/won't be aware of whatever conventions for the game have been established. <BR/>c. Having a plan to stop the fast break. Know what to do when there is a 3 on 2 or an isolated deep cutter.<BR/>d. Having a plan on how to pick up after a zone/junk D turnover.<BR/><BR/>For point #1, this seems to be more about moving without the disc. Or it could be more appropriate to zone offenses, especially point C. Reduce a team defense to a set of two-on-one (like with a zone offense) or one-on-one with two viable cutting options.<BR/><BR/>Good post. It makes me want to read that book.parinellahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03802604259779936852noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-67873735625262672542007-09-24T12:19:00.001-04:002007-09-24T12:19:00.001-04:00This comment has been removed by the author.gcookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-1262276584354955302007-09-24T12:19:00.000-04:002007-09-24T12:19:00.000-04:00Sam,Thanks for your comments. I was thinking abou...Sam,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your comments. I was thinking about this as I ran to the gym just know, and I was going to post an update...so I agree with your comments.<BR/><BR/>One things I was thinking about is that I really hate turnovers on the dump pass(leads to bad defensive balance, short field, etc). Now, this can be worked on via execution, but, from a systematic point of view, a team needs to examine its effectiveness on dump passes and consider that turning it over downfield is a much better proposition.<BR/><BR/>However, I don't think that saying "on a turnover, pick up the biggest threat" in and of itself is defensive balance. It can lead to defensive balance. <BR/><BR/>So, i think that I have changed my mind and that "offensive defensive balance" is relevant. At this moment I am thinking that systematic approaches like increasing dump efficiency are in the "spirit" of what TW is saying. <BR/><BR/>-Ggcookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-25065698911757197312007-09-24T11:53:00.000-04:002007-09-24T11:53:00.000-04:00George (and Bill) -I think that principle 5 should...George (and Bill) -<BR/><BR/>I think that principle 5 should certainly be relevant to ultimate. In any game where the offense can become the defense instanatneously (not baseball or football, but basketball or ultimate), you need to be prepared at all times to make that transition. In high-level open ultimate, this is less important, since there are so few cases where this comes into play. But in mid-level college women's ultimate, where they might be 30 possessions per team in a game (about 1/3 as many as in NBA basketball), the improving your O to D transition could be valuable.Sam Tobin-Hochstadthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12049111326816937908noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-75704235603134358282007-09-24T10:48:00.000-04:002007-09-24T10:48:00.000-04:00Hey Bill,Thanks for those comments. I am in gener...Hey Bill,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for those comments. I am in general agreement about your points from a defensive point of view.<BR/><BR/>However, I think this is a good case in which the 7 Principles are very open to interpretation.<BR/><BR/>That language reads:<BR/><BR/>"A sound offense...<BR/><BR/>provides good defensive balance on all shots".<BR/><BR/>So, to me, this is talking about defensive balance while you are on offense, not while on defense (meaning that you need defensive balance on defense as your comments point out, but it is a different kind of balance than when you are on offense).<BR/><BR/>My current interpretation is that TW is talking about taking shots when you are properly prepared for a defensive rebound and the resulting fast break.<BR/><BR/>Does this make sense?<BR/><BR/>-Ggcookehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17029435701308074373noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-12390900.post-72072989361890808472007-09-24T10:34:00.000-04:002007-09-24T10:34:00.000-04:00> 5. Provides ... good defensive balance on all sh...> 5. Provides ... good defensive balance on all shots.<BR/><BR/>To me, this part is extremely relevant to ultimate. When I envision "good defensive balance", I imagine a defense flexing and bending to the current handler's available plays, while being available to move to block everyone else's plays if necessary.<BR/><BR/>So, on a cross-court pass to the corner behind the arc, everybody shifts to new responsibilities; the defender on the ball forces baseline or perimeter, depending on team strategy. The post man gets to the opposite side of his guy to prevent the entry pass. The wing D on the strong side shifts from poach mode to deny mode, and the weak side switches from deny mode to poach mode since his man is farthest from the ball.<BR/><BR/>Bad defensive balance is this: point guard drives from the top of the key to the post, so the power forward rotates over to help. However, the wing guy doesn't rotate over to cover the most threatening position on the court, so the PG dumps inside to the PF for the easy dunk, the crowd goes wild, and the momentum has changed.<BR/><BR/>Similarly, in ultimate, you have to consider what is the most pressing threat at any given moment. I play deep in a zone a lot, and I have to remember this very frequently. On a break up the middle, where my wing cheated up to make a bid on the disc and failed, I need to sag in and stop the continuation up the field even though there's a guy behind me (which is usually my responsibility). The greater threat is of the team walking it up the field and getting me Iso'd in the end zone against their deep, so I've got to stop the continue, play no huck, and hope my cup catches up so I can beat feet back to cover. <BR/><BR/>If we all see what's happening, I get extra help with the no huck while I recover, or the wing is already back there and I push over to play his spot, and we're back in a stable zone D.<BR/><BR/>Good defensive balance.Bill Millhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10065077215311205545noreply@blogger.com