Monday, October 31, 2005

Brass Monkey vs SWSD

At the time, and I think I am also correct in hindsight, I felt that the Brass Monkey/SWSD game was going to have a significant impact on how the tournament played out. Perhaps this is the result of limited perspective, as my team was going to play the loser in qtrs, but this tournament would have been very different if Brass Monkey won that game.

The initial impact would have been that both finalists would have been in the same pool. I think we would have had a real battle with SWSD to see who would play CLX in semi's.

Another interesting thing was the addition of wind on Saturday. This really hurt a bunch of teams that were cruising along on Thurs and Friday.

Speaking of wind, there was a lot of debate in the Crow's Nest on whether the Mixed final would get to double digits. After the first few points, the concern became whether there would be a halftime. Luckily, things moved along quickly at the beginning of the second half, and not only did we get to 15, but we didn't have to give out SOTG awards and the medals at the same time.


Tarr said...

SWSD really did have a crazy tournament.

Let me stir the pot a bit here:

SWSD and HT both went undefeated the first two days, then lost to the play-in team, then lost to 6TM and beat Olio in the placement brackets.

If there are 6 bids to worlds, should SWSD get the bid over HT? If so, why?

gcooke said...

No. I understand the question from a formats point of view. The Club Championships format does not place teams with the same set of criteria that we use for sectionals and regionals.

One of the problems is that we don't know where the actual "break" will be between teams that qualify and teams that don't. The US usually gets additional bids during the year and teams usually drop out. So we could devise a format which correctly places the 6th team, but we might get 2 additional bids during the year. This occurred to my Mixed team in 2001. We finished 11th, and, due to added bids and teams declining bids, the bids were offered down to the 10th team...who we never got to play.

When the ND's have discussed this, my point of view has been that the teams know the format going in. When we played Hang Time in the "game to go" to 5/6 place, we treated it as an important game that had mattered in terms of our teams goals.

We had to put is strict rules this year to ensure that the placement games were played, and I think this requirement got accurate enough results to correctly award bids based on placement.

Tarr said...

I agree with you that due to the highy unpredictable nature of club world bids, playing out to place is more or less the best we can do.

That said, given the enormous number of inconsistent results in the mixed tournament this year, it's very hard to claim any confidence in the accuracy of those rankings. I can't produce an ordering of the 16 teams that produces less than ~10 upsets of seed. Contrast that to two on the open side.

gcooke said...

Yep...the Mixed Division is a strange animal. Very little data to base seeding on plus the regional finish rule is inconsistent with ranking teams in order of strength.

I sort of view the format as a contract. We all "agree" to play out the format and that the resulting rankings will be the final standings, even if not "accurate".

It kind of speaks to the original point of the post. If Brass beats SWSD, and we stay with the CLX win over Hangtime, then CLX, 6TM, or SWSD are finalists....that is a very different ranking than what we ended up with.

shiv said...

mixed teams are still clearly more inconsistant than other divisions, thus the crazy outcomes. (BTW - i've been out of the scene for a while before this season, but i would be interested to hear opinions on whether the general trend is toward higher quality, more consistant teams/performances in mixed.)

anyway, back to the weekend...
i can't tell you how many times i quoted the pre-tournament seedings for the quarters on Friday evening. 1,2,4 and 10 on one side, 11, 12, 14 and 16 on the other! luck (and "upsets") seemed to play as much a factor as performance in the final standings. i think brass deserved the gold, and although we ended up with silver, i think there are 3-4 teams that clearly played well enough to be in the mix for 2nd place. (HT, CLX, SWSD and $)

whor$hack #74

gcooke said...

Hey Shiv,

It was fun to play your team on Thursday. You guys were talented and carried yourselves with class. I was very aware of the weird seedings in qtrs as I had seeded the thing. I think you should have included us in that 3-4 teams. I think we would have beaten SWSD in qtrs, and it would have been anyones game vs CLX. I agree, though, that wherever BM landed in qtrs that they would have gone through that bracket.

I think we are seeing a higher degree on consistency and quality in the Mixed Div. I attribute a lot of it to qualifying for Wolrds this year.

I think there is great potential for 06 to be an off year if teams decide to compete at Worlds, but not Nationals.